peteryoung: (Make Tea Not War)
[personal profile] peteryoung
Anti-Bush Americans on Live Journal, please take note.

Via [livejournal.com profile] kateorman and [livejournal.com profile] yonmei.

Date: 2004-10-27 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyfferent.livejournal.com
It's not so much "they're watching you" as "if you make threats, however empty, on the Presidents life and get metaquoted, some cracker is going to send your name in to the government, who are bound to investigate all such threats, however empty."

Complain about the government all you like, but if you advocate assassination for a heartbeat, yes, the nice men in suits will have a cup of coffee with you to see if you're serious.

Date: 2004-10-27 05:49 pm (UTC)

Date: 2004-10-28 02:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peteyoung.livejournal.com
Point taken, but the original post was jokingly advocating something like 'death by prayer', hence I'd say it's legitimate to call it, well, more than a slight overreaction. The absurdity is explored quite well under [livejournal.com profile] yonmei's post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/yonmei/357078.html).

Date: 2004-10-28 02:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peteyoung.livejournal.com
Also a rather good poll here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/yonmei/357146.html?#cutid1).

Date: 2004-10-28 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyfferent.livejournal.com
Have you seen screencaps of the original post? They're flying about everywhere. It wasn't just an offhand comment. It was all "please kill Dubya, he needs to die" type stuff. Yes, in prayer format, but she did say it, and vehemently.

If the Secret Service is going to do this sort of thing at all, it's hard to see how they could do it without looking into every case that come across their desks. It's a simple matter of covering your ass.

The person who reported her, in my mind, is the one who is utterly at fault. They were in the best position to know it was just a funny, etc. I expect it was either an enemy with a personal thing, or some mouth-breather who read it in metaquoates and took it literally.

Date: 2004-10-28 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] del-c.livejournal.com
No, I don't believe you, and I'll tell you why. The source you quoted quite correctly limits the action to what is called a "true threat". True threats are well defined in case law (see e.g. Watts vs. United States) and idle jest and political hyperbole have both been ruled to be outside the limit of true threat.

Even if the SS are required to investigate allegations, the investigation in this case would consist of looking at the journal that was alleged to be the site of a threat, not visting the author of the journal. That's a reckless diversion of SS resources, if the intent is to ensure the safety of the President.

Of course, if the intent was to intimidate dissidents, then they have used their time excellently.

Date: 2004-10-28 03:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peteyoung.livejournal.com
I expect it was either an enemy with a personal thing

She suspects it was someone with a fandom grudge against her.

Date: 2004-10-28 03:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyfferent.livejournal.com
The thing is, I've heard of very similar incidents, and visits, under Clinton. This didn't just start with Bush, so every SS visit can't be blamed on the nature of his administration.

I know it's anectdotal, but I remember hearing about college kids visited by the SS under Clinton for joking about wanting to kill him. I know that people who threatened Bush Sr. during the Gulf War got visits.

They really do this, and really have done this, for years and years. They don't always interview the person face to face, but they often do.

The Secret Service is quite a lot larger service than most people think (since you were talking about manpower). It has branches all over the country. Their mandate to protect the President is secondary. Believe it or not, their primary purpose is dealing with counterfeiting, fraud, and identity theft; they are a subsidiary of the US Treasury Department. As such, there are more than 5,000 personnel in the department. That's not the manpower of the FBI but it is quite a large number of people. And they do have a field office in Charleston.

Date: 2004-10-28 06:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] del-c.livejournal.com
I agree they do it, I just don't agree they're legally bound to.

It didn't start with Clinton...

Date: 2004-10-28 10:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] godelescherbach.livejournal.com
either...or Senior Bush or Reagan or Carter or Ford.

It may have started with Nixon, but I'll bet you it started further back, say with Truman.

And I'll bet there are similar practices in other countries, perhpas the UK?

Re: It didn't start with Clinton...

Date: 2004-10-28 10:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyfferent.livejournal.com
I think it got very serious after the Kennedy assassination.

As far as the UK, as MPs have been blown up by terrorists, I'm assuming they take such threats fairly seriously as well.

Re: It didn't start with Clinton...

Date: 2004-10-28 11:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] godelescherbach.livejournal.com
IIRC (and the last time I read a biography on him was at least 30 years ago!), there was an attempt on Truman's life.

Of course, it would be interesting to see when this all did start. Again, IIRC, Lincoln hired Pinkerton guards and used Union Army soldiers as well. So, I would guess that "formal" protection was sometime after that.

Re: It didn't start with Clinton...

Date: 2004-10-28 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyfferent.livejournal.com
Lincoln founded the Secret Service, but back then their primary duty was dealing with attempts to weaken the currency.

I'm not sure just when the Presidential protection thing became part of their job.

Date: 2004-10-28 12:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyfferent.livejournal.com
I get this feeling that if you're in the Charleston field office, you probably spend a lot of your time bored off your socks. :)

Date: 2004-10-28 12:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] del-c.livejournal.com
Heh :-)

I can see a film in that premise. Maybe a sort of remake of _the Tailor of Panama_.

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